This conversation was transcripted from Episode 88 of the Her Retirement Podcast.
Lynn (00:41):
Hello everyone, and welcome to this week’s episode of the Her Retirement Podcast. I have the pleasure of speaking with Diana Place of Third Act Quest, and, you know, Third Act Quest just begs the question like, what is that? What do you do? I am so excited to talk to you because I’ve been looking at some of your LinkedIn posts and saying, this sounds amazing. So I was really excited that you welcomed the chat today and wanted to be part of my podcast. So, hello, Diana.
Diana (01:34):
Hello. How are you Lynn? It’s, I’m, it’s a pleasure to be here.
Lynn (01:38):
Yes. And we’re just like not that far away from each other. So us New England girls, we have to, we have to stick together. <Laugh>, so,
Diana (01:45):
Absolutely
Lynn (01:47):
<Laugh>. So, tell my audience what is third at Quest? And I know you have a bunch of other things that you’ve got going on as well, so I’m anxious to hear all about it.
Diana (02:00):
So just one of the things I wanna say that’s interesting. People are curious when they hear third act, I have people that are a little older and their seventies go, I’m in my fourth act or my fifth act, and I said, it doesn’t really matter what number you call it. What I define as a third act is that time in our lives that is usually in the fifties and sixties, that we start rethinking a lot of things. Either life changes and we go through the transitions. If we’re blessed to have a a, a family, it’s an empty nest happens. If we are re about to re reach a certain age or retirement, traditional retirement age, we are rethinking what we’re going to do with that, that time of our lives after we leave our careers or we’ve hit the wall in what we’re doing.
(02:57):
And we’ve realized, I mean, and this is the most common thing I’m seeing in particular after the, the pandemic, is we hit a wall and we said, oh my gosh, this isn’t me. This job is only giving me money. It’s giving me nothing. It’s not giving me meaning or joy. So there’s a lot of, a lot of people who flip into a mode of making new decisions and changes, and that’s a third act. And the third act is a reinvention of sort of some part of their life, their job, how they live, where they live, who they live with. You know, all those kinds of things start to happen for your third act. So that’s the basis of third act. And third act Quest is, I’m passionate about it because of a number of reasons, and I won’t get into all of those details, but for me, after a crazy corporate career and some entrepreneurial ventures where I was always dancing on the edges of my passions, I got sick in 2018 and said, this is it.
(03:59):
Life is precious. I’ve gotta be living my passion at the front of my life, not in the, not in the, oh, I can do this on the weekend kind of thing. So I decided to launch third at Quest as a way to help inspire other women. And not, not to say that I exclude men from any of our events, but is particular focused on women to embrace this time of their lives. Not to fear it, not to dread it, but to get excited about it. And in particular, I hope there’s a bleed off to the younger generations that all of a sudden go, man, she’s 63 and she’s just having a great time <laugh>, she’s not planning on retiring at 65. So wow, maybe it’s not so bad to get older <laugh>. Yeah. So that’s a long way of answering question, but I hope it helps.
Lynn (04:53):
Yeah, that’s great. So within third at Quest, do you do counseling? Do you offer programs content? Like when someone goes and Google’s third act Quest, what would they see? And, you know, is it a service company, product company? What is it exactly?
Diana (05:14):
It has several ma several components. Third Act Quest is about inspiring women. So we have a series over the last three years, I had an event annually that’s now turning into a smaller version on a monthly basis called Third Act Spotlight. And it is a, it started off as a pure storytelling event, meaning I found women living really interesting versions of their lives in their fifties, sixties, seventies, and even eighties. And they would come and, and share their stories at this annual gathering. And the pandemic’s put us on Zoom. But now I do that monthly. So you’ll hear a woman who is doing something unique, but also bringing an expertise and leads a conversation with the audience around the topic, whether it be ways to pivot in in your career or it be how to start your own business. So those type of topics which really resonate with people.
(06:25):
So tho that, that’s a really important part, which is the inspiration part. The second, and, and along with that, hopefully changing the way people think about people who are old and older than them. And then the second is I do have in-person workshops and online workshops, I call them Living Forward, which they’re all sorts of versions of them. I also have I actually have a retreat. I don’t know when this will air, but it’s a, it is an annual one and this one is at the end of April here in New Hampshire called Opening Up, which is about, you know, there’re gonna be some really interesting experiences people will have that will push them a little bit out of their comfort zone and, and start to reconsider their lives. And we’ll do some some envisioning kinds of work. And then the third component beyond the in-person stuff.
(07:27):
Oh, and I also take two trips a year of women. We go, we’re going on the Camino Des Santiago in September. So that’s an example of something where take groups doing unusual things <laugh> and that it’s really fun. Yeah. that now that we can actually travel. And then the third is a community that I created cuz I saw such a craving of women to connect with other women who were energized, excited, curious, inner, doing some interesting things in their lives that they want positive people around them. You know, they want this community of people to fuel them forward. And, you know, sometimes our friends are just anxious to tell us what could go wrong if we tried it, or, you know, maybe if we are leaving and retiring, we’ve lost our work friends, but where they really our friends, you know? So there are lots of needs, I think we have at this age in the fifties and sixties. So I created the 3 33 Collective, which is a membership organization. So that’s the other kind of that’s the other and it’s actually probably coming more of the central 24 by 7, 365 a year. I also have on occasion done one-on-one coaching. I, at one time probably only have like five people I work with, so I can focus on these other things. Yeah.
Lynn (08:55):
So the 3 33 collective, that is the community that you mentioned mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and that’s, yes. And that is, does someone pay to be part of that community? Yes. Okay. So there’s like a monthly It
Diana (09:06):
Is, it’s not, it’s not an expensive, it’s it’s a, you know, that’s why I said it’s a couple of visits to Panera Bread a month, <laugh>. And it is very rich. It, the collective, the word collective was consciously chosen because it not only is a place where people can come, we have accountability circles. We have areas that are hosted by other members around their expertise. So you can learn things, you can participate in things, you can have fun, you can socialize. There’s lots that you can do. But, but it basically, there’s a lot of value to what they do. And a lot of the women come because they wanna share their expertise. So we all sort of participate and support each other in that process.
Lynn (10:00):
Love that. I love it. So, so, so needed, right? Because as we are transit transitioning Yeah. Because we’re transitioning, let’s say from that career into a third act and it’s, you are losing some things. So what do you backfill for some of those things you’re losing? Absolutely. Yeah.
Diana (10:22):
Absolutely. Well, also don’t, I think you know it when you meet someone that thinks like you do about life. I mean, there’s some people that, you know, we spoke a little bit earlier about retirement and the word retirement and the realities of retirement, both for financial and emotional reasons. There are some people that say, oh my gosh, I’m not done yet and I have so much more to do. Don’t, don’t make me leave <laugh>. Don’t make me stop. Some people are like, I cannot wait until I retire because I have been waiting to sail around the world or build a sailboat or just spend my days writing and painting or, you know, so everybody’s different in how they wanna spend different parts of their lives. So the women that we tend to connect with are women that want a whole life. You know, they want a balanced life.
(11:22):
But many of them for, if I was saying to some somebody, you know, we have everything from corporate execs that will shift at some point, nonprofit leaders, they’re writers and artists, entrepreneurs, teachers and, you know, some are podcasters like yourself to add as an, as a passion mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for them to share. I, a number of the women in the community have travel related businesses because travel is such important thing to all of us, not just to go places, but to experience other cultures and learn about ourselves along the way. Right. and I have actually, this is so ironic, a number of the women that have been in my storytelling events, I have four that ditched a corporate career to become a filmmaker. So we have a couple of documentary filmmakers. So it’s a, it’s, it’s that kind of friendship that you can have in the 3 33 that’s not always easy to find, even amongst your best friends, that kind of encouragement and excitement about trying new things.
Lynn (12:33):
Right. Would you say everyone in the collective is kind of entering or thinking about entering their third act? Are they kind of all in that same place
Diana (12:43):
If you want? That’s a great question. That’s a great question. I think where that’s where the most of the value is for being a part of it. I find that most of the women I know in their seventies or eighties are, they’re attracted to the idea of this third act. But when they come and we talk, they’ve already figured a lot out of what they want out of the rest of their lives. So I think that the ideal pl, the ideal age is typically in their fifties or sixties. That said, I do have women in their seventies in the 3 33 collective, and I ask them why they’re there. Their reasons are a little bit different. They, they’re either just really curious and love to, excuse me, they love to do new things or learn new things, but really at the heart of their life is about connecting with other women.
(13:41):
And they, they just find it fascinating. So they don’t come to learn and they don’t come to figure out their life. They know what they’re up to, but they come for the connection. Connection. And so that’s fun. And, you know, I see such value in the intergenerational interplay. You know, I, I don’t use the word mentoring because we teach each other. Right. No matter if, you know, I learn from my daughter’s 21 year old friends, <laugh> as much as I learn from my 81 year old friend, you know, different things. But we learn and we need to stay connected with each other.
Lynn (14:20):
Yeah. I love that. Yeah. It, it could be you know, bring your daughters to one of the meetings, right? Yes.
Diana (14:26):
Oh, that’s a great idea.
Lynn (14:28):
<Laugh>. That’s a
Diana (14:28):
Great idea.
Lynn (14:30):
<Laugh>, I’m full of ideas. I always got an idea. So we talked about this, this word retirement, and I, I had mentioned that I’m working on a book, and the first thing that I say, even though the book is called Her Retirement, my first question is, do you even wanna retire? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you know, like you said, so many people cannot wait. They identify with the word retirement. To them it means freedom, you know, that I can, I can call it quits on the career that I had, and I have the freedom to choose how I want to live beyond that, that corporate career or maybe that business. A lot of case I work with women that have been employed by other people mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, because sometimes I think small business owners tend to just keep going. Yeah. They don’t, they don’t quote retire. So it tends to be more corporate people that are just kind of done with that rat race.
(15:24):
And so the word retirement resonates more with, with those people. Sure. and I’ve, you know, I’ve searched around for, you know, other, other, other words, but because we’re not just focused on the money part of it, I’m not just bringing resources and content to women just about money. It was like, well, I don’t really want it to be money focused, because even if it were money focused, oftentimes women wanna have more conversations around their life goals. And then, okay. Tell me how the money part of it will support that. So absolutely. I think in the financial services industry, there’s, you know, 300,000 financial advisors. Most of them are men, 80%. Most of them are probably over the age of 50. And they kind of have this traditional old school way of saying first thing, Hey, Diana, you know, nice meeting you. First meeting, what do you have for assets?
(16:24):
What are you looking to do for it? You know, do with it mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And it’s like, well, wait a minute, <laugh>, I let, let’s, let’s step back. Let’s talk about what kind of life are we, you know, wanna design here. You know, whether you’re 30 or just graduating from college, same conversation as, you know, a 60 year old that wants to leave their corporate workplace. It’s what kind of life do you wanna design? And I think that’s where we have to start. And unfortunately in the financial Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And unfortunately in the financial services industry, they just weren’t trained that way. A lot of, a lot of them just don’t even have that kind of behavior to have those conversations. But more often than not, women do want to have those conversations. They want to really be intentional about what they want in this next phase of life, life 2.0, chapter two, third act, you know, whatever. Oh,
Diana (17:20):
Absolutely. Whatever you call it. It’s something new. <Laugh>, it’s something different.
Lynn (17:23):
Yeah. Something new. I just picked up a book on a concept called Iki Guy with Yes. The Japanese. Oh my gosh. Yes. Absolutely.
Diana (17:32):
Beautiful.
Lynn (17:33):
Yeah. And I just started it, and it kept coming into my life for several years mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And I finally picked up the book, and then my son actually texted me the other day. He was cleaning out his photos on his phone, and he had a picture of an icky guy diagram from 2018. And he and I had never talked about it. So I’m like, the universe is giving me some kind of indication that I need to learn about this and maybe incorporate it into what I’m doing with people. But the interesting thing about that was in, in Japanese culture, there’s, there’s no such word as retire or retirement. And they feel that the path to a long happy life is to continue to stay busy, end quote, work or, or contribute. You know, I use the word contributions.
Diana (18:22):
That’s the, that’s the most important element of it is, you know, have you ever read Frankl’s book? Man’s Search for Meaning?
Lynn (18:29):
No.
Diana (18:31):
Oh my goodness. It is beautiful. And I mean, that, that to me, what you said, a couple of things that I just wanted to just add on too quickly. I didn’t mean to interrupt you, but yeah, freedom is important. And that’s why so many that have their own businesses, it’s not because they don’t have enough money necessarily, but they love what they do. They have a certain amount of freedom that they don’t in their corporate roles unless they add the perfect boss. But most people don’t. But you know, when you have a freedom and, and you add meaning to it, and like your work, my work, I derive so much meaning from what I do, not only because I know that it’s needed and I’m helping people, you know, I also just feel connected to what I’ve n have known always that I should be doing in the world.
(19:31):
So I think that’s a sort of a, your search goes back to uncovering something that you know, is inside of you that you bury. And a lot of people in the corporate world, I was there, we do bury our passions and our dreams. And, you know, it doesn’t say, if you have your own business, it’s gonna be like hoop law. It can be a business that isn’t. But in most cases, this is the time in our lives where, I mean, look at the stats for the number of women who start businesses in their fifties and sixties. It’s a huge and growing number. And some of it sadly, is not because of choice. Ageism and gendered ageism is still pretty, pretty significantly powerful in, in the corporate headquarters, believe it or not. But, you know, either by choice or not by choice, there are a lot of women starting their own things.
(20:33):
But so it’s freedom plus meaning, and icky guy is, you know, really think about it. It’s like we all know if you’re doing something and you are just like, your, your heart doesn’t have to beat fast, but it feels full. And you you, you could do it and forget to eat lunch or dinner, you know, it’s like you’re in this total flow that’s, that’s an indication you’re doing something. But when you attach it to why, and you understand why it means so much to you, then, you know, knowing your why is, is like jet fuel, <laugh>, like, keeps it going, you know? Yeah. Like you, I know I, I get a sense of your why. I don’t know all the details of your life, but I get a sense of your why, and I get a sense that you really are seeking a way to add it. It it is meaningful for you to be able to support people, and in this case, women. So
Lynn (21:33):
It’s, yeah. Hundred hundred
Diana (21:34):
Percent geeky guy is you, baby. I think you should, you should definitely go for it. <Laugh>.
Lynn (21:40):
Yeah. I actually used to work with women. I was part of a program called Ladies Who Launch and was providing an incubator in a program to help women really incubate their ideas, whether they were business ideas or hobby ideas, and how to really bring those two fruition and not kind of keep them buried. And a lot of the people in the program were full-time employed, but they had this, this idea and this thing that they wanted to create. And so, ladies who Launched was to help women through that launch process. And I was working full-time at the time. I’m, I’m always one to add more onto an already full plate <laugh> with three kids working full-time. And, but I, I was just so passionate about it, and I would come home so lifted from having those, those meetings with the women that were there to fulfill some of those passions and purpose and ideas, and they just didn’t really know the way to do that.
(22:40):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so I kind of combined, you know, creativity and business experience. I was in corporate America for 25 years, I guess. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> launching small, small businesses for the most part, small high tech companies. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So they weren’t that small. But then transitioned to really small businesses, you know, helping a woman, you know, start a bakery or, you know, nice a, you know, a decorating, you know, home decorating company or whatever. So, so many different ones. But like you were saying, in your collective, you’re there to help each other and to work together. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so that was the same concept, was that I was the, the leader but we were all working together to brainstorm together each other’s ideas. Because sometimes you get so stuck in your own, like mind. And so having that time to think about 10 other businesses or 10 other ideas and not think about yours, and you had 10 other people thinking yours, you just got this huge brain dump of creativity and inspiration.
Diana (23:52):
Oh yeah. It’s, it, it is absolutely magical. I am, I am fascinated, you know, even the unspoken words, the energy that you share, zoom makes it a little harder, but I believe you can still share it. We have sessions some of our Zoom events in the 3 33 are mind blowing. You know, what happens between women that live across the country, some that don’t even live in this country who’ve never met each other. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> connection that forms and the energy they give each other, then they can take it off, you know? And, you know, if they’re lucky enough to live near each other, they can go have lunch, whatever. So I see, to me, it’s, that’s the magic of life really, is that connection. I love the term Ladies Who Launch. I, I’ve, I’ve heard that before. I just think it’s brilliant. You know, I’m reading this, have you ever read Julia Cameron’s The Artist’s Way?
Lynn (24:55):
I have, yeah. I actually have it right here on my shelf.
Diana (24:58):
Okay. So she more recently l you know, sort of took the same principles of the artist’s way and has I think it’s never Too late to Begin again, is her next book. And she uses the, and it’s funny cuz she uses the word retirement a lot. And it’s so funny because I keep saying like, it’s not all about retirement, but I don’t, I, I get away from that. But what I love about what she has so beautifully done for so many people is giving them very basic, simple ways to open up and to really allow their own inner creativity to come out. Hmm. And not, but what, what you’re talking about is this exponential thing that happens when you are with others, right? Yep, yep. So I
Lynn (25:53):
Actually, that’s, I put together a Facebook group called Never Too Late to Launch. It was Oh, right. It was, it was based on my experiences and all the data, seeing how many women are starting new things in, in their own things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so the concept was to support these women that were launching these businesses because I have so much experience in that in marketing and business and operations. And I was like, you know, maybe my path will go more toward that direction. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it was, you know, it was another thing that I add to my plate that <laugh> was already full, but who knows? You know, it might be something, you
Diana (26:36):
Know what though? Can I, can I just say, because you and I sound very similar, I I I laugh at myself. Have you ever had heard that term the shiny penny syndrome? Oh
Lynn (26:46):
Yeah. Ah-Huh. <affirmative>. Okay. Yep.
Diana (26:48):
So if you have that, it’s a sign of being a creative person and an excited, passionate person. So for many years I used to malign myself and say, okay, Diane, you gotta focus, focus, focus, focus <laugh>. And because all during my corporate career, I always had things going on the side, but they fed me and informed me. And now they’re all coalescing. So they’re like breadcrumbs. So a lot of, lot of all these things that you’re doing too many things on your plate. I call it the all you can eat Buffet of life. It’s is so good <laugh>, because as it morphs and, and evolves, yeah. It will refine down to what you really want. But you need to explore all these things if they come up for you.
Lynn (27:36):
Yeah, yeah. I agree. And I, yeah, I’m, I’m an artist, so I’m a self-taught artist for the most part. I had an art company, actually left corporate America and started an art education company. So I You did, yeah. I had, I had that so I could raise my, my children and be present versus traveling all over the world with a corporate career. But it’s, it was called Let’s Go Art. And woo. Yeah. It was, it was fun. It kind of got shut down a little bit with Covid and Sure. Because I was so involved with her retirement and passionate. And my passion now is really focused on educating women about those, those gaps and risks and opportunities because money has been either taboo or overwhelming or confusing. And, you know, I’d like to change that for, for a lot of women, I’d like them to change that financial opportunity so that they can go off and pursue these other things that make life rich. Right. Right. Because it’s not just money that makes you rich. It is experiences and relationships,
Diana (28:50):
But money can set you free if you, if you are in need, it can keep you a prison. Yeah.
Lynn (28:55):
Yeah. And a lot of women are in prison and they maybe by choice, maybe by just not being taught, maybe by a spouse who’s kind of, you know, kept them there. You know, maybe not intentionally, but that was just the way Yeah. You know, money, women didn’t talk about money at lunch and, you know, in their circles. Right. And so I’m just, I, I wanna be a part of that change from that perspective. That’s beautiful. Yeah. But then there’s all these other things that women are pursuing and I was like, oh, I could help, I could help them do that, or I could help them do that. Or <laugh>, I just want to be a little helper. I
Diana (29:32):
Think it’s all relate. What you’ve done is you’ve connected those dots together and it is all related because, you know, I would say in the work that I do the very beginning stages, cuz if, if a woman is in a transition period, so let’s say she’s just about to leave a job, whether it’s retirement age or not, or she’s been let go or she’s just done. Or if she, like you, the ladies who launch have just had this burning passion inside. They don’t really know exactly what it is, but they wanna get it. Yeah. And, and bring it up and have it be in part of their lives. Maybe not a new business, but be part of their lives. So wherever it is, the first thing we do is a series of writing exercises and discussions and prompts around letting go. You know, and money is probably the number one limiting belief of every soul on this planet.
(30:30):
So to me, if you can help, you know, there’s the emotional release. You know, I I will admit that for most of my corporate career, I felt great guilt for making too much money. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, when there were so many people who needed so much. I, so money was, is very triggered for all of us. It can, it can do a number on your decisions, it can do a number on your confidence. So you can’t just let go and say, I guess I don’t need money cuz you do. Right. You gotta eat. But you know, for you, for, for if you help them just on this sort of practical level of money, all the other stuff can just blossom. So that’s, I think it’s a beautiful connection you’ve created.
Lynn (31:17):
Yeah. That’s, that’s what I’m trying to help women is make that connection and do it for, do it from the perspective of when you make those major life transitions, whether it’s divorce or widowhood, the average widow is 59 years old. You know, whether it’s, they’ve always been single or they’re transitioning into being an empty nester, then they’re done that or you know, they got, they got laid off and they’re 60 and they’re like, what do I, what do I do now? Right. Yeah. So if we can, if we can kind of say, let’s, let’s deal with the practical stuff. Let’s address it whether you’ve been confused, overwhelmed, dismissed, you know, a lot of women are dismissed by male advisors that they’ve seen or you know, there’s just so much lack of education around it, and that’s just in the financial space. But then you get to quote retirement because retirement planning is social security, healthcare, long-term care, you know, there’s so many, how do I take my 401k and create a paycheck from it? And we were already kind of, a lot of us behind the eight ball with the, the financial concepts prior to retirement and retirement introduces a whole bunch more. It’s like, wait, I was already
Diana (32:35):
<Laugh>. I know I
Lynn (32:36):
Was already overwhelmed. <Laugh>,
Diana (32:38):
My very first retreat was a three day retreat. And I took them through this living forward process. And it, it’s like looking back and knowing what the beliefs were that have shaped your positive values, but also have held you back. And it, then there’s a envisioning part of the process where we look across their whole lives and then there’s the, hey, okay, what is the, what is the next, you know, three months look like to get us on the way and keep momentum? You know, what are the things we need to, to do? I was blown away. One of the women there she was 64 and she was due to retire, she was petrified. She had a very high paying job. She, I’m sure she was very safe, but she had been given the impression from not her financial advisor, but the whole ether out there, fear breeding around, do you have enough? You’re living longer. You know, so I witnessed a woman who was so smart and so savvy, be befuddled and confused, and it was her biggest barrier was her financial security. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that was her biggest barrier of all. So it, it, it, it is, you’re right. It is such a, it’s such a big deal.
Lynn (34:02):
Many, yeah. Some, sometimes people that have the most are the most fearful and mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. They also may have been raised in not abundance. So when it comes time to quote, start spending their money versus saving, it’s very hard to switch that. Okay, I’m not saving or I’m not earning, like I was, I’m not earning
Diana (34:28):
No income. Yes.
Lynn (34:29):
Yeah. And now I have to start spending what I saved. And there is that fear that, oh my goodness, I’m gonna run out.
Diana (34:36):
What if it runs out? Yeah. <laugh>,
Lynn (34:38):
What if it runs out? My mother always said, you don’t wanna be a bag lady. And so sometimes I feel I’m inspired by that fear and I think, well, if I, if I, if I’m in this space and I’m doing this, there’s no way I’m gonna be a bag lady. <Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah.
Diana (34:55):
Well, and it is a, it’s a fascinating reckoning we have with ourselves throughout life. What I like to say too is that as you do get older, and I’m talking fifties and sixties, you see the end zone in far sharper focus. You know that your number of days that you’ve spent are most likely more than the days you’ll go forward. And that on top of money is very destabilizing. One of the things that’s, that’s what we’re trying to do in the retreat. I call it opening up because so many of us stay in routines, jobs, lives that aren’t serving us because they’re the one we know. Right. You know, they’re not the one that we have no idea about. You know, one of the, one of the gifts I call it, of our third act is to embrace uncertainty and take a leap of faith to follow your heart. You, if you don’t, it’s, it’s, you know, if you have the deathbed conversations you hear of people, it is usually not doing those things that their heart really wanted in favor of playing it safe. Right.
Lynn (36:17):
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I unfortunately, women want safety. We crave security for the most part. Yeah. And change is very hard. I mean, I, I was speaking with another woman on a podcast and she said that she’s a non-financial life coach. And she said the people that she works with that have an easier time making the transition are the people that have had more change and transition in their lives.
Diana (36:41):
Absolutely. Because resilience is very
Lynn (36:44):
Resilience.
Diana (36:45):
Powerful.
Lynn (36:45):
Yes. Resilience. Yep. So that’s why oftentimes widows and divorcees, you know, they’ve been married for 35 years or 40 years, they, they haven’t had that level of transition and resiliency to those changes. And so embracing change at 60 is like, wait, what is change? Right. it’s, it’s, you have to work on the behavior. I, I was talking to someone the other day about behavior because behavioral finance is a very interesting area and we tend to be our own worst enemies. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I’ve, I’ve taught classes where women say yes, you know, they’re all like, they’re all gung-ho. They wanna make the change, you know, it’s, and then the class ends and they go back to their lives. And a lot of ’em probably aren’t making any changes, but they were all psyched up to make the changes. So I’m like, if I could figure out how to get women to follow through on some of the things they know they need to follow through on, you know, whether it’s your health, you know, diet. I was just speaking to a woman yesterday, her husband passed away in November. She’s gonna be fine financially. She has more than enough it looks like. But she said she smokes, she hasn’t exercised, she’s just unhealthy and she just cannot get, you know, get it going. She’s
Diana (38:14):
Got a lot to let go of
Lynn (38:15):
Right now. Well, yeah. She’s got a lot of emotional stuff to deal with. Yes. Financial, you know, financial things. And I’m like, it will come. But it’s like, how do you, how do you change those behaviors? And I think behavior is so hard to change. It was one of my questions for you actually, when you mm-hmm. <Affirmative> bring these women together, they’re, they’re there to make some changes. Yes. So do you feel that, that it’s difficult for women to make the changes? Absolutely.
Diana (38:40):
Yeah. It is absolutely difficult. However, and this is, there’s, there are all sorts of theories on how long it takes to establish a new routine in your life and all these kinds of things. You know you know, smoking’s a whole different thing cuz it’s a, there’s a physical and emotional addiction. But if you’re talking about incorporating a new practice in your life, whether it be meditation, a walking, 10,000 steps at whatever these new things, there’s, there’s the best school of thought or the best study I’ve seen is that consistently 30 days in a row you’re good. But I don’t think it’s ever that simple. And I think doing research is beautiful to understand it, but at the end of the day, that’s why what I say, what we do is we attach a desire to your why. Why do I wanna quit smoking? And you know, I’ll give you an example.
(39:34):
Actually, one of the women that we, we back things off and say, okay, what are these beliefs that are holding you back? In her case when she was able to come up with this, like, you know, I smoke because I’m still upset with myself or whatever, whatever. All of that, her why to quitting smoking, which was at the top of her list is cuz she wants to see and know her grandchildren. So she attached not smoking to a future vision born out of this why, which is so important to her family and love and connection that she was able to let it go much more easily because she knew what she was letting it go for. And likewise, that works for things you wanna start that are new, why do you wanna start that? It’s new a it’s gonna do this, this, and this. For me, the, the y is essential.
(40:38):
And it takes a while to, to in some cases to really figure it out. That’s why I think, you know, that’s why retreats are good. And I’m doing one that’s four days, but it’s not going to stick unless you, and that’s why I believe in the power of community, unless you attach it to a continuum, unless you have a partner accountability, you might, you might have, you might have heard a lot of people just established accountability partners with each other. And it’s amazing how many things you do because of an external, you know, somebody who’s externally he expecting you to do that. So, you know, that’s why I love my community because I think we all are there for each other, but we all are are willing to say, Hey, you’re a little off because that’s, that’s not you. You know? Right. Yeah. So, so all of that I think aligns, but, but you have to be open to change. If you’re not open, it’s not
Lynn (41:44):
Gonna, yeah. That’s one of the first things I say in my class is you have to have an open mind. You have to be, you know, ready to accept the responsibility, ready to, you know, accept, change new ideas. And if you’re not, well, maybe this isn’t the right program for you, you know? Yeah. Because it’s, it’s it’s, it’s, it’s simple in some cases, but it’s not easy.
Diana (42:12):
No. But you know, I wanna go back to one thing you said, which is powerful. And again, that’s one of the things I like to talk to people that think, oh my gosh, it’s tough to get older. I’m like, yeah, but think about all of the experiences you’ve had, the disappointments, the losses, the failures, the disruptions in your life. The more you have, the more you know and the more you understand that you can recover. So I like to say, you know, like you have a g p s in the car, say like your internal G p s call it your gut. Even your internal G p s is so clear about what is right for you and wrong for you, that the older you get it is so finely tuned, you know? Yeah. <laugh>, you know, what’s, what’s the right thing? And it’s like you just, so part of it at this age is trusting what you keep yearning for or thinking about or dreaming up and trust it and go for it because like, what are we waiting for? Yeah. You know, <laugh> trust, what are you waiting
Lynn (43:18):
For? I always say invest in yourself, trust yourself. Right.
Diana (43:22):
Yeah.
Lynn (43:23):
Yeah. Because so often women have kind of put ourselves on the back burner, you know, and it’s,
Diana (43:28):
Well, it’s easy. I mean that’s part of what’s so beautiful about if, if you are blessed and if you decide and you’re blessed to have an interesting career and a family and you’re, and, and, and relationships and friendships and learn. I mean, if you’re blessed to be that way, it’s still a lot. And it still takes away from just you, you know. That’s why empty nesting can be terrifying and horrifying for so many women and depressing for so many because they haven’t figured out their what next. But if they’re in their what next, they’re like, okay, <laugh>, see ya,
Lynn (44:10):
<Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. I see <laugh>, I had my what next, but I still was mourning the loss of the loss of that phase of my life cuz it was so fun. And I was like, I’m never going to have that, like those experiences again. And I’m like, but I have all these new cool experiences. And I’m like, but they’re, I don’t know if they’re gonna be as good <laugh>.
Diana (44:31):
It’s this whole Oh yeah, I’m with you on that. I think I, I was a latent life mom. I didn’t have my child and my one o only until I was 41. So my last imperfect egg when she left the nest, you can believe <laugh>, I was actually just recovering from a pretty crazy cancer at that time. So I was like, oh my gosh, what else universe. But it, it, it, it ended up being a gift for me, but I’m with you. It’s like, it doesn’t mean that you don’t want in urine for that. But it does, it, it takes a lot out of us to be a parent. Mm. and it, it, where do you take it from? You, you usually take it from your own self and your own self care or even focus a number of the times that women that come on these retreats, you know, will do these exercises that you and I would see as fairly you know, oh, that’s pretty logical. Yeah. I already do that. Have never spent time thinking about their own desires. Wow. Beyond the obvious, like Yeah. That I like, you know, skiing or Right. You know, something like that. That’s so it, it, we, we don’t think about ourselves typically. Yeah. Until we have a little bit more time freedom to do
Lynn (45:53):
That. Yeah. I love it. I’ve often thought about retreats. It’s kind of on my, on my list. I have a logo for some retreats where you go for a long weekend or whatever, and it’s, and it’s looking at that, the non-financial, the financial and just kind of retirement retreat and figuring out what your retirement is going to look like from the purpose, vitality, connections, contributions, and your financial foundation, and you mm-hmm. <Affirmative> come for the weekend and you get it all put together and then you go off and you live this happier, healthier, wealthier life in retirement. Well,
Diana (46:29):
Let me, let me recommend something to you because I think it’s brilliant idea and it’s a different version of a slightly different version of what I do. Yeah. However, the thing that I found is that you also need to have the mechanism for continuity and momentum. And so that’s why, again, that’s why I started this community, it’s this craving to really stay connected and keep going. Yep. a lot of the women in the collective originally were a part of a workshop and they wanted to stay connected to each other. So, oh, that might be a really interesting thing for you to incorporate and hey, you know, maybe we can collaborate there. I would be happy to, to talk about that as well. So, I mean, I really believe in the power of and I say collective because the difference between a c between collective and community is that a community is a group that bands together toward a purpose.
Lynn (47:30):
Right.
Diana (47:30):
And a collective is one where there’s an e you know, sort of energy and support interrelated so that each can be successful on their own, in, in different ways, different businesses, different lives. But it’s, it’s a little bit different. Yeah.
Lynn (47:49):
Yeah. Cool. I like, it’s pretty cool. I’m just putting together a, it’s a membership program right now. I haven’t that, for lack of a better word, I’m just taking initial signups for it, but I haven’t really named it yet. And it’s for that, for that purpose, right. You can come to one of my classes an event, but you need that continuity and to keep that momentum and that accountability. And that’s, that’s what this, this membership group, I, I call it retire Together. Nice. Because a lot of women are doing this on their own and they need to know that they don’t have to. So hopefully
Diana (48:23):
This Oh, I think it’s a wonderful idea. Yeah, it’s a wonderful idea. You know, just, I’m sure you’ve already thought of it, but the what’s so cool about that is that, you know, everybody retires differently in, in everybody’s space. There’s a book that you might have read, and if you haven’t, I highly recommend it for you and for your listeners. It’s called Life is in the Transitions, it’s r written by Bruce Byler. Okay. And he interviews 250 people across the, mostly I think us, who have had some, some sort of pretty major life, life disruption. But he talks about how transitions happen and one of the things that was the most meaningful, so a transition to retirement, most people go, oh yay, I retire. There’s a lot of depression after that, even if they couldn’t look forward to, even if they have their, what’s next planned is because it’s really hard. But so for you, this period of transition is usually between five and seven years. Hmm. and the beginning can be sort of depending on what it is, pretty crazy and pretty chaotic and pretty maybe euphoric, but the middle gets messy and then there’s a resolution and you figure it out, you know, kind of thing. So I think what you’re, what you’re doing with this membership is, is a wonderful idea. Not just get retired, but go be retired and how it, how it fits your life.
Lynn (50:02):
Yeah. How it all plays out. And so, yeah. Because sometimes, you know, we, we, we need a friend <laugh>. Yeah. And I love that you have this collective of, of friends. You’re in New Hampshire, so I I I need to like do this, I need to come up there and do this event. Well you
Diana (50:20):
Do. And you know, my vision for this and like, I have a couple of women from outside of the US us my vision is that it is global for the ability to find sort of this unique like-mindedness. But my, my, my real vision is that we’ll form in, there’ll be geographic clusters. So that, and right now it’s New England, you know, Boston, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Vermont is the cluster the biggest cluster cuz that’s where I’m from and that’s where most of my contacts are from. But I have beginnings of, you know, DC, California Canada. And, but, but one of the things I said to them, it’s like, you know, that’s the vision is that, hey, I met you Lynn on through LinkedIn or something, and now we’re on this podcast, but why don’t we just drive and, and meet someplace in the middle and have coffee or lunch, you know, so those kinds of hybrid kind of relationships, and that’s what retreats are. I’m going to have an annual gathering that I hope, hope gets larger and larger and larger, and I want to collaborate. So, hey, you know, let’s do it. We’ll see what happens, where that goes.
Lynn (51:34):
Let’s do it. Yes. Well, I thank you so much for this awesome conversation. It was just great. Oh, I
Diana (51:39):
Loved it. I
Lynn (51:40):
Loved it. It was a good way to end a Friday afternoon. I like, like I said, I have a lot on my plate. Professionally, personally, I’m, I’m a sandwich generation. I, I’m a, if you look up sandwich generation, and there is a picture of me and there’s all my stuff that I’m dealing with and Yeah, it’s hard.
Diana (51:59):
It’s
Lynn (52:00):
Hard. It’s a lot.
Diana (52:01):
It is. It’s really hard. And it, nobody told us
Lynn (52:06):
No, there was no, there was no training told us. No, no training for this. Like, mom, I’m taking care of mom now. Wait, I miss my mom. She’s supposed to take care of me. But it’s good, we’re blessed. Right. It’s, we have to, we have to just reframe how you think about it in your mind.
Diana (52:24):
Absolutely. You’re right.
Lynn (52:26):
I appreciate everything you’ve done. Is there a website that people could go to see
Diana (52:30):
More? Yeah. Third act Quests, you know, third act quests, all one, you know, continuous dot com is there, I have, I list out all the different programs. There’s a place to learn about the 3 33 collective, and it is a paid membership, but it’s not a, it’s not expensive really. And there’s a two month free trial so people can come in and check it out for two months. We just celebrated our first birthday and at our little virtual birthday party with some of our core members, we were laughing and having a great time, and we said, oh my gosh, we’ve only been around a year. We’ve had over 80 Zoom events. We have 13 special interest groups that are led by individual people in the collective. And we’ve, we keep adding members and we’re, you know, we’re on a really beautiful trajectory. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s just a very exciting time.
(53:29):
But anyway, so yeah, third quest.com. It’s all there. Perfect. And I, you know, I welcome anyone, I also have a newsletter that I put out, and I’m just about to launch this series called the, the 12 Gifts of our Third Act. And each of these, each month I’ll go through a different resilience. Is the next one coming? Oh, Paul was the first. Resilience is the second. So I, I, I give a lot of research around the power of it, and then I tell stories and give suggestions and things like that. So it’s, that’s a fun newsletter that people can sign up for to be on the mailing list too.
Lynn (54:08):
Perfect. I love it. Well, thank you again, Diana. I really enjoyed this conversation. You stay safe up there in New Hampshire. We got snow coming in. So for you people in Florida, you can, you can be saying ha ha ha. But I, I’m a skier, so I don’t mind the snow, but
Diana (54:24):
Oh, I’m, I love the snow. I just don’t like it when I’m driving, otherwise. I love it. Yes.
Lynn (54:30):
Yeah.
Diana (54:30):
Thank you so much, Lynn. I love what you’re doing and I believe in your vision and, and you know there are many ways that I’d love to support you and collaborate in the future. So have a great, like, great day.
Lynn (54:44):
Likewise. Thank you everyone for listening to this week’s episode of the Her Retirement Podcast. As I always say, each and every week, it’s all about knowing more, having more, and getting her done.
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